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| Gorazd G11. 08. 2010 14:49:44 |
Zlatko, amen. 
Maybe we'll meet for a drink sometime (so we don't burden the readers) and say some more mountaineering stuff. 
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| blackt11. 08. 2010 15:03:18 |
I'm wondering why no one uses climbing shoes for those harder via ferratas? This year I did a few myself and it seems it would be easier in climbing shoes. I don't mean those where you walk in between but ferratas like the one above Železna kapla. If I saw right you're non-stop on the wall Backpack with hiking boots for the descent.
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| geppo11. 08. 2010 16:17:55 |
OK
right, I'd be very happy
regards
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| s51kq12. 08. 2010 11:24:30 |
Climbing shoes on extreme via ferratas ??
Extreme via ferratas don't just mean vertical and overhanging walls, but also terrain without big holds, reliable and big enough footholds, often slabby and completely smooth - flat walls. One feature of extreme ferratas is that in the hardest spots they usually don't have pegs or bolts to step on or grab. In short, they can have all combinations of difficult vertical terrain, often with negative slope.
Don't venture into such serious terrain with poor footwear! Climbing shoes have a big advantage over clumsy hiking boots here. With better grip they also mean noticeably easier overcoming of wall slope. Of course, be aware of the dangers of using them. With climbing shoes we only exceptionally step sideways - to the edge. Usually we step on tiptoes and thus transfer weight out of the overhang, even by jamming foot in cracks, etc.
Stepping in climbing shoes on grass, mud or wet rocky terrain at such angle is usually fatal and means immediate slip without possibility of controlled stop. On the other hand, climbing shoe grips excellently on dry, monolithic, dust-free rock. With it we can excellently tiptoe into very small pockets or holes, ideally chimney cracks in ferratas, slabs on friction etc. When rescue is needed on extreme ferratas, they can be crucial, as they allow with proper climbing technique the simplest movement for rescuer up or down in overhang... (passing the immobilized, preparing rope, anchors and rescue systems etc). As happened yesterday when we rescued scared and exhausted Hungarians through the key overhanging section of the waterfall in Maltatal, which is so hard and technically demanding that those without lots of real climbing experience (alpine or from hardest ferratas) have no business there.
In short, in most newer extreme ferratas the keepers officially recommend or even require climbing shoes. For the hiking part, normal approach shoes asap.
Regards, Mijo
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| VanSims12. 08. 2010 12:19:40 |
When I read this rant I can't help but give my opinion too.
I don't find extending the via ferrata controversial in terms of easier access for people not so skilled in alpinism and free climbing. Where does it say a mountain is only accessible to experienced alpinists and climbers. I have nothing against making such a ferrata in Slovenia too.
On the other hand, building post-adrenaline ferratas whose purpose is mainly to satisfy needs for that substance and commercialization of mountains seems somewhat controversial to me too, although it's not said I won't go on one someday.
And I fully agree with Gorazd on what he wrote in his article about the ferrata on Cjajnik about huts... but not now about that.
By my info, Italian CAI (like our PZS) also banned new ferrata construction. What Austrians will do when they run out of alphabet letters I don't know... Anyway, ferratas beyond D, E don't see me!
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| benjamin712. 08. 2010 13:13:16 |
Fully agree with Mijo.
Myself usually take something in between for protected paths, low shoes with quality rubber on front or as shops say - semi-climbing shoes (http://www.pohodnik-si.com/ads/obutev/sportni_cevlji/scarpa_sportni_cevlji_cinque_terre_id_0032.html
Of course these shoes require more caution on descent, but definitely fast and agile uphill, not even talking about quality.
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| turbo12. 08. 2010 16:19:34 |
The best via ferratas or klettersteigs here are in Upper Posočje and the whole Martuljek group. And even more remote somewhere... Like for bolted routes, also here a short rope, helmet and some leg and arm strength come in handy. Sporting achievement on top maybe not "I feel very Olympic today" style but feelings, dear ones, ... there hasn't been a ferrata or klettersteig that satisfied me like some Altar or Rokav or Loška stena and more. Streams, animals, flora, fauna, solitude, views, route finding, passage searching... that's it!
And I also like to turn to steel paths to neighbors, no mistake.
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| penzionist12. 08. 2010 23:45:24 |
"Where does it say a mountain is only accessible to experienced alpinists and climbers".
Well, how different we are! There's also a population for whom it's totally unacceptable to outfit some "reserved" mountain like Srebrnjak, Široko peč, Kanceljne... with cables. Nowhere does it say every Janez must cheaply climb every hill he suddenly wants.
On the other hand it's true some of our walls are densely drilled with bolts too. One example is Nad šitom glava. Maybe no noticeable difference in nature impact if some bolts connected with cable. Then besides climber strings there'd hang ferrata crowds too.
Anyway, we won't solve this problem. In our mother nature too many smart ones, no worry they'll find common language.
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| viharnik13. 08. 2010 06:27:41 |
There are plenty of protected climbing paths here and no need for new ones. They are short, some more interesting (from Rjavine, Hanzova to Prisank, Jubilejna through Zadnje okno, Vrbanove špice, Over Kanja saddle to B.G.). They take you to areas where aid systems (ladders, pegs, cables) often allow passages on mountains where hiker without gear would give up. But climbing such paths is quite different from classic natural contact with rock. On "ferratas" we basically grab the protections and somehow pull (sometimes less, sometimes more), without natural central body balance and gradual edging and weight transfer to holds and footholds in rock. No orientation and focus in continuing passage search. So climber becomes in otherwise natural mountain environment almost like that lowlander at production machine in factory. No sharpening senses and feedback info, and satisfaction much less on tour.
So I think it's right that in our mountains primalness stays, where man-mounter will find and redevelop through them his lost treasures (universal primal senses; oneness with spirit, healthy reason, feeling and connection with creation-nature, nobility, heartiness, unselfishness, balance, respect for creation and nature, ego shedding and thus proper direction, recognition-discrimination (good-bad) on life's path.
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| blackt13. 08. 2010 10:32:54 |
@s51kq sorry, but from your reply I couldn't tell if you're against climbing shoes or not? The two ?? confused me and at end I don't know if that means surprise or what? I do climbing too, but only on equipped crags, so I have some knowledge and know how to climb in climbing shoes.
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| velkavrh13. 08. 2010 11:15:29 |
I think it should stay as it is in our mountains. We don't need mountain highways. It's only necessary to maintain and repair what our path maintainers and trail blazers have done over the years. It's only necessary to replace worn-out steel cables on certain sections. Perhaps it would be good to guide less experienced hikers to some mountain with markings and install some new directional sign. Experienced ones and connoisseurs of solitary mountain paths don't even need those.
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| mosovnik13. 08. 2010 13:05:52 |
Nicer, better and especially more understandable than what matta said about why no via ferratas in our mountains, it's almost impossible to say. At the same time I agree with velkavrh, let it stay as it is and let it be nicely maintained in the future too.
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| s51kq14. 08. 2010 09:36:09 |
/@blackt/ In vertical walls, as a free climber you know that safety is always the most important. Here climbing shoes definitely provide higher safety due to better grip and ability to step on the smallest surface, compared to hiking boots. As long as you're on the wall, their use offers great advantage. On hiking terrain though, there's nothing to do with them - they are too dangerous (slips). Personally, I see an important advantage in their use if you have to rescue someone. There without them, you surely won't manage to climb up/down 3x on severely overhanging sections while preparing a system to lift the incapacitated or injured.
The two "??' do somewhat refer to those who might doubt the usefulness in via ferratas. But still, it's self-evident that in difficult terrain we'll use the most suitable equipment, including footwear. If someone is against it, that's their personal view and personal problem. It wasn't meant maliciously.
If you go abroad, you'll see that many real climbers use climbing shoes in via ferratas too, of course in those difficult ones where it's sensible. Climbing shoe soles wear out faster on scree than on slabs anyway.
Otherwise, check some album on my mountaineering web pages and you'll see that I go into via ferratas with them without shame. Safety is first after all!
Best, Mijo
http://atv.hamradio.si/gore
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| blackt14. 08. 2010 23:09:04 |
Thank you very much for the reply!
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| igor10017. 08. 2010 21:11:23 |
I'm interested in climbing the via ferrata in Eiserne Kapelle... I don't have much experience myself, all I've climbed so far is the ferrata in Lavamünd (about 20x).
Do you think I need more experience before this Austrian via ferrata to match this grade.
I've already checked out the ferrata twice and think I'm ready for it (physically and mentally).
Thanks for your desired help.
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| Gorazd G17. 08. 2010 21:26:40 |
1. First turn off "Caps Lock". We can hear you ... No need to press the Enter key 20x, once is enough.
2. You'll match (if you will) with the iron, not with the rock.
3. If you think you're physically and physically ready, just go for it. Good luck!
More advice will be given by via ferrata experts.
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| igor10017. 08. 2010 21:45:29 |
Simplified? I think in SSKJ it's written POENOTIL . Thanks for those "useful" tips, I expected that people on this forum don't look if CAPS LOCK is on but exchange USEFUL advice among themselves. I'll try on another one where GORAZD G won't comment.
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| Gorazd G17. 08. 2010 21:51:07 |
See, it helped - there are hardly any uppercase letters.
You'll surely get useful information on this forum, just wait a bit.
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| antik17. 08. 2010 23:15:46 |
gORAZD g, can we hear each other?
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| bari18. 08. 2010 07:45:59 |
Gorazd is right, so cynicism is unnecessary. Uppercase letters mean SHOUTING.
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