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| viharnik16. 01. 2013 22:14:08 |
In France and Switzerland rescues are very expensive and can easily exceed 5000€.
In these times of our whispering prosperity I wouldn't dare think twice about any lower insurance level.
On the gore-ljudje website there's an article about an alpinist and ski tourer in Canada who says that even if you know all the laws of the mountains and consider all terrain factors, you can never make the mountain completely safe for ascent. An avalanche can hit you right where you least expected and planned. He also says he believes mountains have their special energy and those who climb the mountain receive this gift.
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| ljubitelj gora16. 01. 2013 22:29:49 |
OK, thanks to both, but where are you insured abroad, which insurance company should offer that and how much are the premiums.
Even if you're careful, someone above you is careless and sends a couple of rocks your way, then there won't be any jokes abroad when you have to pay everything.
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| turbo17. 01. 2013 09:27:10 |
For various reasons a few years ago after decades of PZS membership I moved to Klagenfurt OEAV. And with that I solved all the problems and dilemmas I had regarding PZS before that step.
Around the same time, somehow, I've been in foreign mountains incomparably more than in domestic ones. At home mostly only in winter, late autumn and early spring.
Why OEAV instead of PZS, why more in foreign than domestic mountains, I've written, we've written, you've written in various columns in past years and I won't repeat it.
Everywhere is nice, it's nicest when you're not at home 
Let everyone understand as they wish 
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| robter17. 01. 2013 10:22:32 |
LG, as I read, your B insurance covers costs only up to 3,000 EUR, A up to 10,000 EUR, A+ even more. And there are some additional things with A insurance.
But this info is also important:
Rescue cost insurance for A and A+ members additionally covers:
•rescue costs in case of fainting, exhaustion and general distress on the mountain that could endanger the member's life;
•rescue costs in case the member got stuck or lost and cannot safely continue the tour.
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| ljubitelj gora17. 01. 2013 10:37:32 |
Yeah but you have to cover everything immediately! What's the point of car assistance if you have to pay on the spot yourself and then argue for reimbursement.
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| julius17. 01. 2013 10:47:27 |
robter
Everything you wrote is true!
But you overlooked the fine print where it's clearly stated that the insurance doesn't provide ASSISTANCE.
What is ASSISTANCE?
ASSISTANCE is that the insurance provides help and pays all costs from the moment of the accident until return home and all treatment.
PZS insurance you can only claim after treatment is finished. Until then YOU PAY EVERYTHING YOURSELF, then you wait for a "favorable case resolution".
For last year I know of a couple of cases where A+ members had to pay for helicopter rescue (about 6000€, the insurance still hasn't settled it and it's questionable if it ever will.
I hope you have enough money to first pay the A+ membership fee, and in case of accident all rescue costs and patching up in a foreign hospital.
turbo, unfortunately they forced us to pay membership to foreigners. Well, PZS now insures membership with an Austrian insurer, so my patriotic conscience doesn't bother me anymore.
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| SPIDER17. 01. 2013 14:30:21 |
A membership costs 55€. Deduct PV yearly 41€. For those 14€ you can't expect them to hassle with you for free if you roll down the slope
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| viharnik17. 01. 2013 16:50:30 |
Today no business market institution can sustain a flat-rate approach to customers anymore. Same with our PZS insurance, which is no longer covered by Tilia, but via Wiener Stadtische bank. The current difference between Austrian and our insurance is only that hospital costs must be additionally covered via Vzajemna insurance company, i.e. supplementary policy for final coverage in case of mountain accident. Everything else like helicopter dispatch, hours of GRS team intervention and transport home is already covered in A or A+ mountaineering insurance.
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| julius17. 01. 2013 17:36:34 |
viharnik
Once again!
What do all these wonderful promised amounts mean to us, if at the moment of accident abroad neither PZS nor Wiener Stadtische cover a cent, in short you pay everything yourself, when you finish treatment the via dolorosa begins. W.S. has all safeguards built into the insurance conditions to annul payment (health status, chronic diseases...).
PZS has the following cost breakdown for A members
insurance ---9.21€
Planinski vestnik --25.50€
Planinski kažipot -- 1.80€
PD --7.76€
PZS --7.76€
Since 9.21€ is absolutely too little for any decent insurance, this is a pure rip-off for all who go to foreign mountains too. Writing in PV and on the website how good the member insurances are exceeds all bounds of honesty.
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| viharnik17. 01. 2013 17:52:16 |
I haven't had mountain accidents with bumping into wood yet. Nor have I walked the via dolorosas proving the accident. But it would be interesting if someone responsible at PZS could explain what level of insurance services it is, how payment to foreign GRS works, handling of the claim and recognition regarding the accident, since that's why we're insured.
Otherwise I rely much better on that real insurance from the Highest, which saves you even before the accident happens.
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| julius17. 01. 2013 18:03:03 |
viharnik
Otherwise I rely much better on that true insurance from the Highest, which saves you even before the accident happens.
But this contradicts the following statement:
Whom the gods love, dies young.
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| ljubitelj gora17. 01. 2013 18:32:56 |
Folks, this is no joke , thanks julius for the advice
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| strelec195417. 01. 2013 18:49:45 |
How expensive it is to seek medical help abroad I saw last August in Zermatt.
A two-day-old cut on the finger... but it got infected, the arm swelled up and I had to go to the clinic.
Antibiotic, tetanus injection, and arm bandage 570 eur.
So much about prices abroad.
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| viharnik17. 01. 2013 19:30:09 |
Julius, the ways of the Lord are different, little known to us.
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| ljubitelj gora20. 01. 2013 13:08:08 |
On one forum I saw this:
April 2010, Carnic Alps
Monte Coglians - Hohe Warte, highest peak of the Carnics (since it stands on the border between Italy and Austria it has a name in both languages)
While skiing (descent) from the top the skier falls, falls (flies) 200 meters down the slope and rocks, stops at the bottom unconscious (in soft snow) with very poor survival prospects. Falls on the Italian side, so help comes in the form of "angels"- Italian GRS.
Involved in the rescue 9 Italians + doctor and two Slovenian GRS members. To Udine - to the clinical center takes him Italian "yellow", helicopter which has too little space inside for direct transport of "vacuum" on stretcher, so they take him on sleds (outside),(about 25 minutes...).Ten days recovery in Udine, at the request of his wife (and him) transport to Ljubljana with medical care in the rescue vehicle of UKC Ljubljana.Recovery...life
rescue cost 0 eur
hospital cost in Udine (ten days) 0 eur
transport to Ljubljana (if he had stayed until the end of treatment in Udine there would be no this cost) - transport on own request 420 eur
The bill was of course there and 12000 euros, but it was covered by this insurance.(except transport to Ljubljana UKC)
Insurance ; B membership at PZS !!!!!!
WHY WAS RESCUE AND HOSPITAL COVERED ?
Slovenia has a state agreement with Friuli Venezia Giulia (most of the Carnics) which states that costs are covered the same as in Slovenia.
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| viharnik20. 01. 2013 13:33:20 |
PZS should normally cover it, especially with the A insurance package. I don't know where some people get this skepticism and fear from, saying if it's Slovenian it's worth nothing. Before, when Tilia covered the insurance, I could say it wasn't transparently compensated to customers.
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| ljubitelj gora20. 01. 2013 13:39:47 |
Read the last paragraph!
And suppose this was written by an instructor, I think an alpinist.
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| viharnik20. 01. 2013 14:23:12 |
LG, then go to the Carnics as much as you want, so you get stuck!.
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| julius20. 01. 2013 16:29:37 |
viharnik
This time you missed the whole thing.
-PZS as an association of societies does not pay anything (0.00€) to the injured from its account, neither for A+, nor for A nor for B membership package.
-Tilia is a Slovenian insurance company and the claim that if it's Slovenian it's worth nothing at all doesn't hold. If you're a PZS member you'll remember the insurance card you got when paying the membership fee. The card was for the alpine card number and your details. Tilia also had ASSISTANCE during its working hours.
-The current insurer Wiener stadtische is an Austrian insurance company, which as in its entire history offers a lot, what you'll get out of it we'll see. In the late 80s it was known in Slovenia as an insurance with pyramid system. How such a system looks is known.
-But you neglected the essence and that is ASSISTANCE.
L.G. described a case from 2010. At that time we were insured with Tilia and Tilia handled things smoothly and financially painlessly for the injured.
Interestingly, PZS also admitted that the insurance does not include ASSISTANCE
see the last issue of PV and read the website Gore-ljudje.
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| jax20. 01. 2013 17:22:01 |
One more thing to add: when Ljubitelj mentioned that the bill was 12000 but covered by insurance within PZS membership - I think that's not quite true. Of those 12000 only a smaller part actually falls on rescue costs - those PZS or its insurer must really cover. The rest covers treatment and hospital stay - which on the west can quickly add up to a lot. That part PZS insurance doesn't pay (at least as I understand), but it's covered under foreign health insurance - if it was emergency and treatment in state hospitals, even ZZZS European card, otherwise travel insurance (Coris etc.), which must be arranged separately. PZS insurance covers only rescue costs. Am I maybe wrong?
This of course means that even those few thousand coverage within B membership is not so little, since it's only for rescue costs, other health costs are covered from another source.
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
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