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| Zebdi29. 09. 2013 09:27:31 |
I think it's more likely that he was a PZS guide and not a mountain guide 
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| zippo29. 09. 2013 09:32:48 |
Definitely a hiking guide from a mountaineering club and not a mountain guide, laypeople often mix that up.
Regarding Košutnikov Turn the story was much more confused and consequently some more order was made among hiking guides, categorization of route difficulties that individual guides can lead based on abilities and additional training was also introduced.
The guide from PD Matica who was supposed to lead to Košutnikov Turn stayed in the valley then because of a blistered foot. In fact she wouldn't have managed that ascent and was aware of it. Once guiding in clubs was very cowboy-style arranged, especially the mentioned trip was a bit special, because the primary goal of the full bus was shopping in Borovlje. It was in 1988 when we went to neighbors for cheaper fasengo, and at the border they refunded the tax or that famous "melverštajer".
Only a smaller part of participants decided for the ascent. Vast majority of them was without crampons and ice axes, which was fatal at crossing northern snowfields. Three people died, one was seriously injured.
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| herman84. 10. 2013 06:07:17 |
You're right, it's a PZS guide, BUT DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE CRITERIA FOR GUIDING ARE DIFFERENT? And, who should act against such a guide, if at all?
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| lynx28. 10. 2013 23:34:11 |
There's a big difference if you catch the night or it catches you.
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| Chico30. 03. 2014 20:20:01 |
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| _d_31. 07. 2014 06:49:30 |
I sincerely hope they have at least paid the membership fee in some PD in case of rescue. Congratulations, without gear on a very demanding tour!
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| Zebdi31. 07. 2014 07:33:36 |
Well, no need to exaggerate really. After all Gradiška for experienced isn't that very demanding...
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| Žiga2231. 07. 2014 09:15:39 |
As for equipment - given it's a very demanding marked trail, required gear should include at least helmet, climbing harness and self-belay kit... Which ain't visible in the pic.
Personally I don't give a fuck how folk hikes in the hills. For all I care they can go in their underwear. But if you're posting pics online, post at least properly equipped ones. You know, for good example, so no one gets wrong ideas.
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| traceour31. 07. 2014 10:14:35 |
It's relative, what if ya have all gear by all rules but a stone flies into your knee? Yeah, chopper comes and they fine ya. And no fine without harness and s.v. kit on very demanding path (helmet was there).. Don't presume if no experience.. And no hard feelings B-) it's also so that for some difficult path extremely demanding while for some a walk..
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| traceour31. 07. 2014 10:14:37 |
It's relative, what if you have all gear according to all rules but a stone flies into your knee? Yeah, the helicopter comes and they fine you. And no fine before without harness and s.v. kit on very demanding path (helmet was there).. Don't predict if no experience.. And no hard feelings B-) it's also so that for some a hard path is extremely demanding while for some a walk..
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| _d_31. 07. 2014 10:14:47 |
I'll be glad if you tell me one concrete case who got a fine ticket for rescue due to improper equipment?! Haven't heard of anything like that happening?!
I don't care either how they hike to the mountains, just don't call rescuers then when you roll down the rocks, get dizzy, feel sick, slip... it's not about who and how experienced now, it can happen to anyone, even the most experienced hiker. Ok, let's end this "topic" because originally it was about Nanos and open/closed hut.
Good luck.
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| _d_31. 07. 2014 10:40:43 |
Thanks primoza, but when I see what all walks in the hills and in what gear, it seems still too little. I don't say accident doesn't sleep, can happen to anyone, but let's reduce risk of accidents with proper gear and mental and physical condition.
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| pikica131. 07. 2014 10:50:03 |
20+ years ago no hiker had helmet on head and self-belay kit. But people hiked all trails, even secured hiking paths. People were just less indifferent to fellow man. Watched out for possible hiker below you, today though like ... fuck they're walking right where I am. Whole rockslides they trigger when hiking on hiking paths. No helmet saves you from that. In hills you simply mustn't allow a fall, even with harness. Today you can buy all possible gear, which is nothing but false security to clueless hiker. Sudden weakness, loss of consciousness can hit you even when driving car. Before flying off road you hit some along the way. Then they write "for unknown reason veered off road"
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| SunBurned31. 07. 2014 10:59:00 |
"In hills you simply mustn't allow a fall, even with harness."
That's like saying: cars shouldn't have seatbelts nor airbags, because in cars you simply mustn't allow crash. Why for fuck's sake send everyone who does stupidity to grave?
Clear that both helmet and svk help. No one throws stones on purpose, nor breaks a foothold on purpose and hangs on self-belay kit. But you survive.
If kilo stone falls on helmet, you survive. On head, you die.
If you fly off foothold into abyss tied to svk, survive. If not, die.
Just that simple.
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| Zebdi31. 07. 2014 11:08:00 |
Just a note: if a kilo stone falls on your helmet from a bit higher (and in hills usually from real height), you can only dream of surviving 
But fully agree with pikica1...
EDIT: also this; in Slovenia haven't come across secured path where foothold could "break off" for me, and I've done quite a few. Unless of course some cubic meters of rock collapse. Foot/holds usually break in climbing routes, not on made paths.
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| SunBurned31. 07. 2014 11:10:53 |
The weight I wrote purely from memory. But that's not the point.
Right: slips off peg, twists in head, slides on pebbles. Better?
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| Zebdi31. 07. 2014 11:22:01 |
Better
So no mistake - I'm not against using safety gear, but against crucifying everyone who doesn't use it. My opinion is no safety gear can replace proper psycho-physical condition, while proper preparation can in many cases replace safety gear. Then you see people on Jubilee, who have all possible gear, but still grip the cable so convulsively that knuckles are pure white... not all in gear 
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