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Safety in the mountains

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matdra5. 06. 2012 08:25:39
Hello!

As the hiking season starts, the chance of accidents increases too (hope not (knock on wood)). So I have a few questions about safety in the mountains:
- do you use a self-belay kit everywhere it's needed (very difficult paths) or not (confident in your abilities)
- has anyone actually used the self-belay kit: slipped/fell and it saved them. What was the feeling, was everything OK.
- which harness kits are the best and highest quality

Thanks in advance for answers and wish you safe and happy trails in the mountains.
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pohodni5. 06. 2012 12:08:49
When I go on a very difficult path, the self-belay kit is definitely in my backpack. Mostly I put it on at the entrance to the climbing wall itself and take it off at the exit for easier walking. Of course, the term "very difficult path" is quite broad. On the climbing route to Raduha, for example, belaying isn't as essential as when climbing Kopiščarjeva on Prisojnik, where exposure to a potential fall is much greater. On the other hand, there are also very difficult paths that are sparsely equipped with protections, so self-belaying is almost impossible e.g. Mrzla gora, Hanzova on Prisojnik and others. In any case, it's good to start with easier paths, learn clipping and using the self-belay kit, and continue to more difficult ones by gaining valuable experience. There are plenty of such paths in Slovenia for beginners too.
I haven't experienced a fall with the self-belay kit yet (thank God), but recently I was present when it happened to a female hiker on the ferrata in Železna Kapla. It all ended luckily then, although such a fall is definitely not pleasant and I don't want it at all. Even with a fall on a self-belay kit, you can get serious injuries that can't be predicted in advance, depending on the circumstances (fall height, possible impact with body or head on rock, impact force).
If you take one from brands like: Petzl, Camp, Mammut, Black Diamond, Ocun, you can't go wrong.
Safe and happy up there.
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lynx5. 06. 2012 15:02:10
Aren't you in conflict with yourself (cognitive dissonance)?

You can tell we all went without anything not long ago.
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Janiel745. 06. 2012 15:19:35
@matdra: definitely get a self-belay kit (I have Easy Rider), climbing gloves and don't forget the helmet, you only have one head! And don't listen to some who say you don't need it...At least you feel safer. One slip or inattention, maybe falling rocks etc. can be fatal...
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atoamac5. 06. 2012 15:20:46
Since I have the kit, I use it. For a better feeling. On nearly vertical ferrata sections, besides belaying, it's also a chance to catch your breath by taking in oxygen while clipping and unclipping carabiners.
Very important for safety is the helmet to me, even if it sometimes ruins the hairstyle. Rock showers (from goats of animal or human kind) I've experienced and it's not nice.
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neph5. 06. 2012 21:27:26
I mandatorily use the self-belay kit on harder ferratas. Whenever I belay, I do it consistently and above all correctly and everywhere, even on slightly easier sections. Clipping the cable just here and there is not for me, although many do it.

For modern "extreme" ferratas I recommend also an additional endless loop with nut carabiner for possible resting.
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ljubitelj gora6. 06. 2012 01:56:38
Self-belay kit YES, because if you don't have it on a climbing path and a rock hits you it can end the worst, a couple of 100 meters lower, in case of self-belaying, if something hits you, severe pain, the kit saves you from a worse fall, with the self-belay kit that has a box unfortunately after a fall the usage period expires, not safe anymore, but if they said that, no one would buy such a kit, I used it only 1x on Via della Vita, elsewhere I trusted my hands, carefulness, observing, attentive to what's happening higher up, but this doesn't help much when it flies, flies like a bolt from the blue....but you need to know there are also many climbing paths without protection for self-belaying, mandatory use of hands for progressing...alpinists use ropes and various technical aids for safety, in case of a fall it ends well, we hikers take these damn paths too lightly, wet ground, mud, rock, good combo to fall into an abyss. Life is only one, my opinion.
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zdomec6. 06. 2012 21:08:25
If we go on demanding ferratas, besides technical gear (helmet, self-belay harness) a third very important factor is needed: Psychological readiness, which isn't even mentioned in these comments.
I had several times opportunity to see a hiker super equipped with all ferrata gear, and got scared above the first big exposed drop and couldn't continue. If it happens to a hiker at the path start, he has chance to return safely, of course probably quite scared. But imagine what can happen if someone gets scared in the middle of via italiana? Return is practically impossible. Such things happened and mountain rescuers had to intervene.
We had a case on JOHAN ferrata (Dachstein) where rescuers had to wrap the hiker in rescue bag so he couldn't see the depth, and thus brought him down.
So everyone should think very well if he can handle the ferrata difficulty regarding exposure, looking into depth and climbing shorter uninsured parts of ferrata.
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keber18. 06. 2012 14:55:06
I flew off last year in Železna Kapla. But since I'm somewhat used to falls from sport climbing, it wasn't that bad. I fell on already somewhat easier part, so the carabiner with all my weight flew directly onto my finger on the hand when I wanted to catch automatically with the hand. Luckily nothing worse, but it would be better to slip on overhanging part, less injury risk.

Didn't have that feeling "oh horror, I fell, terrible", but "aha, fell, let's go on." Adrenaline does its.velik nasmeh
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som698. 06. 2012 19:51:48
If practice turns into excessive self-confidence it can be fatal.
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matdra10. 06. 2012 18:15:10
Thanks for all the tips. I wish everyone above all safe adventures in the mountains.
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garmont10. 06. 2012 21:02:45
Just a reply to certain statements around the self-belay kit. Every kit, whether with a belay plate or the newer one with dynamic rope is unusable after a single full fall!!!
Therefore it's mandatory to carry some extra pair of 8 mm cords, so after the fall (if you survive it) you can set up new self-belay. Of course without certain knowledge (knots) it won't work.
Regards
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keber111. 06. 2012 13:58:44
What is considered a "full fall"?
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neph11. 06. 2012 15:24:38
On a ferrata for my understanding "full fall" is everything that's not a fall e.g. into a ledge, where you just dangle.

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rasto_r13. 06. 2012 15:27:57
I also plan to get a climbing harness and self-belay kit. But some dilemmas bother me. Single-piece or two-piece harness? Given that I intend to use it on ferratas and with a backpack, it seemed smarter to go for a two-piece. But there are more single-piece in offer... (are there so many more "climbers" than "ferratists" or does single-piece suffice completely?). And today in Iglu they told me that two-piece is practically useless, they recommend single-piece, that (at least I understood it that way) two-piece isn't relevant at all, that only our mountain guides still recommend it...?! Yes, single-piece is probably more comfortable, but I really wouldn't want to break my spine due to wrong loading in case of a fall. What do you recommend?
What about self-belay kit? Plate or sewn rope? In Iglu they also have some action with plate, but is it clearing stock or are both technologies equivalent?
Since (I hope) there won't be need to buy new parts of gear (at least not because of falls), I'd like above all feeling of safety, comfort and ease of use. Can you recommend what to buy?
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neph13. 06. 2012 16:14:36
For ferratas principally a single-piece harness is more suitable, that's a fact. The center of gravity is positioned higher in case of a fall, so there is a smaller chance that it "breaks" you. The situation is even more serious because usually a (heavy) backpack is in use.

Anyway, in practice most people use only the lower part of the harness. Of course this is also due to the fact that on ferratas "one mustn't fall" and only a small percentage of people have actually experienced what a fall is like.

If the harness will be used exclusively for ferratas, I recommend a single-piece one, or combined lower and upper part. Regarding the self-belay kit I'd personally choose one with a "pouch".
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garmont13. 06. 2012 19:00:24
Single-piece is already assembled. That's why it's called that.
Two-piece is with "addition of upper part". That's a harness assembled from seat and chest part, each separately.
Regards
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neph13. 06. 2012 20:47:39
Garmont, thanks for corrections, I mixed up the terms a bit. Already corrected.
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rasto_r14. 06. 2012 09:10:50
If I understand correctly, you recommend single-piece, but one that also has chest part, not just seat. What about comparison plate/sewn rope on self-belay kit?
regards, Rasto
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socialac14. 06. 2012 11:46:44
Self-belay kit with sewn strap is only for single use (if you fall the sewn strap is no longer usable).
With plate and rope it's a bit different. In full fall only the rope "burns" and you have to replace it later, which is much cheaper. In short!
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