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| marko123. 08. 2009 13:37:17 |
The red self-belay is a kit for climbing protected paths. It has a built-in system that cushions too strong a jerk in case of possible fall-slip. Contains strap y shorter loop for rest and braking mechanism. The blue-yellow self-belay kit is meant for climbing protected paths, cushions too strong a jerk in case of possible fall-slip. Contains rope y loop and braking mechanism. Listed in Iglu sport catalog summer 2009. In my opinion it doesn't matter which one you buy? I don't know.
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| Mirko0123. 08. 2009 14:52:33 |
6.9.2007 Guest wrote: "... Really hard to find someone who uses Y self-belay kit properly...." That's why I'm wondering if there's any video on the proper use of the Y self-belay kit, because for me the switching is very slow. Or maybe Guest expressed himself awkwardly and meant just to say we don't need Y self-belay kit in our mountains. That with Y it goes slowly anyway.
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| Mirko0123. 08. 2009 19:51:50 |
Draško thanks! Exactly what I wanted.
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| bridnk23. 08. 2009 21:08:25 |
what Y, you need 2 prusiks and two carabiners from the kit, that's it
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| ugn26. 08. 2009 09:36:48 |
Bridnik, don't you think it's dangerous if someone takes your joke seriously?
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| free21. 09. 2009 19:09:55 |
I replaced the old self-belay kit with a lighter, newer one (Black Diamond). It has carabiners that are undoubtedly easier to manipulate and the brake mechanism is tucked in a pouch. Previously the brake was metal, with this self-belay kit the mechanism is different. I don't know why I have a worse feeling than with the old kit, and I'm interested if anyone has experience with this. Is it true that it's practically for single use, since the "brake" is then unusable.
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| matic.m22. 09. 2009 10:36:53 |
Yeah, I'm interested too. Is it no longer usable after the brake tears?
lp
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| francihabjan22. 09. 2009 10:45:11 |
I have no experience, but I prefer the old system. It really looks like the brake in the new system is unusable after a possible fall.
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| matic.m22. 09. 2009 12:34:09 |
Exactly as francihabjan wrote. I inquired at Promontana. In a fall the brake that's in that little bag 'tears' and then it's unusable. Need to replace the whole kit. Older version doesn't have this issue. There the kit after fall and onwards is used normally. Salesman told me there's a big difference in fall cushioning (newer is much better).
lp
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| free22. 09. 2009 18:36:18 |
Then on the same tour you can't clip twice? madonna, I'm not gonna fall, but 90 euros that such kit costs is a bit too much for one-time use, right?
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| matic.m22. 09. 2009 18:56:58 |
Yes, the total surprised me too, given that you can use it only once. I was determined to treat myself to the new model for sure, but I changed my mind because it's a pity to waste the money (for one-time use - you never know). I don't know why they started making and selling such kits then?
lp
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| fpetel122. 09. 2009 19:21:26 |
The self-belay kit is for the extreme case if we fall. If you slip and fall, you won't do it once more on the same tour - almost certainly, otherwise improvise a mechanism and maybe it holds if we fall again. Anyway, I think that with bigger forces in ferrata falls, where we fall up to 10m, the material even on old systems gets so overloaded that it needs to be replaced - at least I would. I don't know for others how many times you fall on one protected tour? I so far haven't and the kit is just for safety.
lp. Franci
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| viharnik22. 09. 2009 19:51:02 |
Those brake, damping mechanisms are just a fashion fad, like modern car electronics that raise the price by half. On normal ferratas and protected paths we deal only with few-meter stretches. That means the fall is just that much, so a clipped 10mm rope is fully enough for self-belay.
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| triglavski22. 09. 2009 20:35:52 |
I fully agree with Viharnik. Self-belay kit is not meant to fall off the path constantly, but to be protected, with a better feel. Actually good for the psyche, especially for those not comfy on the wall. Comes out especially on very hard or extreme ferratas, which we don't have. Here protected paths are made with very short peg distances, abroad different, long stretches, cable somewhat slack. Fall 10m there: serious injuries, probably need help. Don't know new brakes. For long years used normal aux slings. Main thing is proper length. Usually hold clip on rope/tape with arm extended. Too short: too much on cable, blocks progress. Too long: slings/tapes catch pegs/rock edges.
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| spetovar24. 09. 2009 14:59:49 |
I too have Black Diamond kit where brake is in bag. Really one-time use, especially at bigger slip/fall. If you just lean a little on lanyard, no panic. Bigger/longer fall is a problem with any alpine gear. Same with dynamic slings: micro cracks possible (don't throw kit on ground). Climbing ropes are good for say 6 falls (more/less depending on rope), then no guarantee it catches you again. Colleague had slip on descent from Mont Blanc, kit held him softly over deep drop. When I bought it: ~150€. Colleague said he'd give 1000x more then  So if it saves life once, 90€ is tiny price. As for shock mechanism, as Triglavski said, if you fall >10m here (or anywhere), what kit you have is least worry. Best safety: smarts in hands and go slow.
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| jernejscek28. 09. 2009 20:31:25 |
Hi! I have 2 questions:
- how best to connect Salewa G3 ferrata set to climbing harness (the lower one)? Need extra carabiners or just "twist" one into the other?
- in which direction and especially why do carabiners clip onto the cable in a specific direction?
Thanks for the info, even if beginner ones!
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| bridnk28. 09. 2009 20:41:51 |
What's the deal with you guys and these self-belay kits? If you have no clue, get the alpine school textbook.
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| ugn29. 09. 2009 09:02:05 |
If you use fixed slings without a braking mechanism for self-belaying, it's irrelevant whether you do or not, because you'll rip them or break the carabiner in a fall - the jerk is too big - even on shorter falls.
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| spetovar29. 09. 2009 11:50:55 |
Jernejšček: In principle, make a loop from this strap and attach it to the loop on the harness. But this strap looks (at least on the picture) suspiciously thin. With the harness, you got surely some instructions on how to attach it.
ugn: Carabiner (if you mean the main one) you won't tear just like that, as they have over 10 kN breaking strength, more than 1 ton. Bridnik: the forum is for exchanging information, whatever it is. I agree it's good to read a book on the topic. But like everything else, standards in alpinism also change.
No hard feelings. Best regards.
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