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| Lukito27. 08. 2020 12:49:07 |
@Zebdi: it's a secured climbing path that I gave as an example and not the only option. And if you're personally very surprised, so be it. Believe me, people actually clip into slings and quickdraws on certain descents too. Well, you probably wouldn't because the fall factor over the wall is probably better for you than a back injury. If you haven't eaten all the world's wisdom and have some space left, maybe you can still think about it being nice to be at least somewhat clipped in - maybe you meet someone less experienced somewhere who sweeps you off the wall with a backpack.
Well, unless you're an experienced alpinist, then it's impossible, right? No more danger, protection completely unnecessary. Maybe some hair will split differently for you and you'll think a bit more practically. Personally I prefer to protect on quickdraw and sling rather than nothing. Given that I have a harness on and gear on the harness. Nice day and good luck.
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| Zebdi27. 08. 2020 13:05:17 |
@Lukito, a lot has already been written on the topic of static vs. dynamic belaying, but anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me0dSWbEq8I
Fall 1 meter above the bolt, 80kg, tested also belaying with a sling (120cm). Good luck!
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| Lukito27. 08. 2020 13:19:00 |
Apples, pears... every alpinist will also tell you he has no desire to fall on SVK because the factor is too high and injury very likely. Definitely better than falling without, right?
I'm glad you found space somewhere to share knowledge, even though I didn't talk or ask about it. But thanks anyway, I already know all that.
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| Zebdi27. 08. 2020 13:38:57 |
Look, I don't care at all how you (don't) protect yourself. Those apples and pears, alpinist falls and the like I won't comment on, but when you write about protecting with sling and quickdraw be aware that there's a chance someone reads it and uses that "knowledge". There are already too many accidents in the mountains and no need at all to encourage more. That's it from me 
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| Lukito27. 08. 2020 14:15:25 |
If you read everything you wouldn't write like that. Then some would interpret your writing that it's better not to be protected than protected on regular quickdraw, or that you need a dynamic on the end of SVK. And that doesn't hold either, right?
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| Zebdi27. 08. 2020 14:35:24 |
I read it, no worries. To summarize my posts:
- for self-protection only SVK with suitable quickdraws (with catchers!) is suitable.
- regular quickdraw without catcher can unclip on fall (friend's dynamic unclipped during slackline/highline fall, unfortunately he's no longer with us)
- outcome of fall on regular sling will be very, very bad. As demonstrated in the video above, at fall from 1m above bolt it actually doesn't matter if clipped or not.
Do we disagree on any of the above points?
P.S. To me dynamic for SVK is very impractical, but if others freeze..
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| dprapr27. 08. 2020 14:36:09 |
I'm interested if in recent years there was any study (here) on how many fewer accidents are due to use of SVK on our secured paths. Or, if there are data on how many accidents happened exclusively due to non-use of SVK on a secured path? Not meaning those few via ferratas in Slovenia where SVK use is undisputed.
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| Zebdi27. 08. 2020 15:21:00 |
dprapr, somehow it seemed to me that exactly this had already been discussed on this forum. Check page 6 of this thread - Jani Bele wrote an excellent contribution 
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| dprapr27. 08. 2020 17:07:22 |
You have a better memory than me. He really wrote well. I am of a similar opinion.
Rarely, but when I see this "fiddling" with SVK, I think where this consumer mentality and false security and responsibility has led us.
What is the perception of the mountain world with constant clipping on a normal secured path? At most I understand it when we have a child clipped in. Adult hiker who needs SVK on a secured path is there too fast. As J. Bele already mentioned!
Regarding via ferratas there is no dilemma. But there are fewer in Slovenia than fingers on a hand. That so many SVKs are sold anyway is interesting and scary.
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| Pi_is_exactly_327. 08. 2020 20:08:44 |
For illustration I marked on the picture where snow blocks the locking mechanism in the carabiner (see mark 1). When snow gets in, can't squeeze the handle anymore (see mark 1), so carabiner gate stays locked and can't be opened (see mark 2). Even shorter section on (south) snow causes this issue. Otherwise works excellently.
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| recruit25. 12. 2020 17:23:04 |
More than 10 years ago I bought a "PETZL" brand self-belay kit, which hasn't been used even once and was stored in a dry closet and also untouched for all 10 years.
Today I bought a self-belay kit without harness (just the upper part/for kids) whose instructions said that kits after 10 years are no longer usable even if untouched or properly stored.
I don't have the instructions for the old kit.
Now I don't know if I should throw away that old kit and buy a new one or not. Also, my body weight is 5kg less than the maximum (without gear)
Thanks for your answers. Regards
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| lijaneja25. 12. 2020 22:07:00 |
The truth is not far off. Only natural materials withstand long periods of non-use, all synthetic stuff is toast after longer disuse. Years ago I had a chance to check it with my own eyes. A washing machine in constant use lasted (with occasional repairs) 25 years. Brand new, stored in the basement (packed) was after less than 10 years ready for the trash.
Of course it's not a proper comparison, but it makes you think
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| dprapr26. 12. 2020 10:03:29 |
Throw it away or buy a new one?
It depends on how much you like yourself.
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| Lamps26. 12. 2020 16:34:09 |
I wouldn't use it for heavy via ferrata (hanging and dangling on clips). Not for climbing either. For demanding secured paths (Hanzova, Triglav via Plemenice, etc.) it would still be usable, as it would fully serve its purpose (greater safety and better feeling).
The decision is yours of course. If you plan to use this new one as little as the "old" one, I advise against buying.
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| Mcgiver27. 12. 2020 19:17:13 |
Plastic ages alright... After about eight years I planned to go touring today. Ski boots stored in a dark and dry space. Good thing I checked at home if they still fit me....  That's the result.....
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| grega_z_brega27. 12. 2020 19:55:54 |
Well, now you have new booties.
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| Mcgiver27. 12. 2020 20:31:49 |
He he, even Mcgiver can't fix this anymore.......
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| dprapr28. 12. 2020 08:42:04 |
I pretty much agree with Tone that plastic degrades sooner when unused. But regardless, I wouldn't mess with these things.
Safety first.
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| bongo28. 12. 2020 09:01:00 |
You are completely right Drago. It's always interesting to me how people throw hundreds, even thousands of euros on various useless things and "Chinese eggs", but when it comes to helmet, SVK, boots, windbreaker, crampons, accident insurance etc. it's "Hmm, .. do I need it? Where to get the cheapest? The old one from my grandma's cellar is still fine ... " 
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| julius28. 12. 2020 11:02:18 |
For consideration.
During holidays I watched an episode from the series Gore Balkana on Aljazeera. This time Viki Grošelj led the team to Triglav. He was the central figure of the show. From Vrata via Prag to Kredarica and then Triglav. And what was the point?
Viki didn't wear even a helmet, let alone any safety gear. The Bosnians had helmets and nothing else!!!!
After the show I browsed old photos. The oldest are well over 60 years. Until a good 20 years ago almost nobody used a helmet on equipped hiking trails, let alone SVK.
Considering what people go to mountains now, their knowledge, behavior, what they do and how many, helmet use is really necessary. SVK is just a nuisance. Of course mandatory on real "feratas", but not on equipped hiking trails.
About quality we can debate, especially disparaging "Chinese eggs". If you inspect your expensive gear, shoes and clothes from top brands thoroughly, you'll find "made in .. China, Vietnam, Taiwan .." on all. Even our Alpina sells Chinese shoes under its name. Wolf-skin Jaka has no product made in EU.
In short, think well what gear you need and don't skimp on yourself. Buy real quality stuff. Helmet inspect thoroughly yearly, as it has limited safe life due to material aging. Same for all non-metal gear.
Therefore every whining
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