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Špik

heinz5. 02. 2011 22:47:08

I believe that for someone who has a series of harder winter ascents in various conditions behind them, Š. right now isn't too demanding, but one shouldn't forget that generally every winter ascent into high mountains is treated as demanding. (Probably) due to the necessary gear and knowledge of its proper use, and also a bunch of other factors like the possibility of constant changes in conditions and circumstances. Possibilities of avalanches, slips, getting caught by night, frostbite, etc., increase the degree of difficulty, so talking about an undemanding ascent to Spik is maybe a bit hasty..., because (don't forget); here it's a general - public assessment or opinion that anyone can accept.

Santi5. 02. 2011 23:00:39

One would expect that not just "anyone" sets off on more demanding winter tours, but a mountaineer with knowledge and mileage... Which, given the nonsense some people ask sometimes, is utopian. But one needs to distinguish what is the technical difficulty of the ascent and the difficulty due to other circumstances.

heinz5. 02. 2011 23:39:13

Precisely that some ask things that seem ridiculous to others proves that info on current conditions is read by a very wide colorful crowd.. What do we want, - the internet is accessible to almost everyone and no one is forbidden to read comments and interpret them completely their own way.
Many, e.g., just because they stood on Triglav, think everything else is easier.. And then read about an undemanding high-mountain summit in winter conditions, and think: well, I was on Viševnik too.. piece of cake. Let's go!
And that can be wrong.
Here unfortunately it is not reserved only for a select circle of experts, or not exactly a forum of some mountaineering club.
That's how it is.
Cheers!

JusAvgustin6. 02. 2011 20:17:25

I sign Santija! in both cases! and also Heinza! but I see it like this: again fire in the roof... Špik really isn't anything special if both jumps in KG are filled or snowed... If there's ice, problems can already arise in overcoming the jumps themselves and depending on ability also "scratch"... Regarding difficulty of our mountains in winter you can't compare ascent to Mojstrovke with ascent to Špik, as Špik is quite a bit more demanding, both access and technical difficulty... I know Martuljek is already tough in summer... let alone winter. How many ascents do VO or VR record (though not under Martuljek), DK and KŠ, and then ŠP? Ponci are also popular winter goals, especially for hikers (VD and Kotli...) Oltar due to length of access and ascent through gully, DK due to JG and ŠP due to jump before Amphitheater. There are certain mountains in winter accessible only to narrower group of people, why stay only in Martuljek... Good examples Kočni, Mrzla Gora (which is allegedly difficult even in summer. Haven't been to MG yet, planned winter variant via central. Out of context. Every winter ascent depends on current conditions. With whoever I was in mountains in winter I have to say I turned back only a few times due to conditions. Sometimes forced some drytooling (Storžič Kramarjeva), most ascents in optimal. Every eye has its painter. Important to realize that the tour lasts from car to car not just to summit. Most accidents happen on descent, which honestly is the most demanding part in winter... Jalovec, Triglav, Prisank (via Hanzova, Kopiščarjeva... through devil's gully), Škrlatica, Razor... as soon as there's a steep descent section and some traverse, psyche is present too. Conditions can change momentarily and then a backup plan is needed, not to give in to panic. Especially with head in mountains, full winter gear etc..., etc... We can discuss conditions, ascents, gear at length... Still at the end someone asks total idiocies, maybe for attention or thinks maybe "without" is also possible. Such individuals are best ignored, if there's any ambiguity there are ZS and we are people. Everything can be sorted out. Forum is read by more and more people, more new names and nicknames. More comments. Positive, negatively tuned etc...
To conclude: ascent to Špik in winter season: great tour, worth every effort, for beginner obligatory belay. Most delicate parts: jumps in KG summit ridge from base to top and descent. If tackling Špik via Špik gully then of course completely different story.
They also compared Viševnik with Mangart (of course jokingly) but some didn't understand it's not the same! Mountains in winter are the most beautiful! With improper handling however also very dangerous... Regards, Juš

Jakka6. 02. 2011 23:09:26

Špik through Kačji graben "easy", "nothing special" etc...??? Similar to Viševnik??? zmeden

Don't know through which KG you went, I went through the one on the bottom pictures. Easy and no problem, then I'd go in the afternoon after work to Pohorje. Think about it, forums are read by many who don't have "three clean" about mountaineering, so put yourself in their shoes and describe conditions accordingly. mežikanje

Santi7. 02. 2011 01:41:53

One useless rant... I don't know what's controversial on the first pic, nicely iced unproblematic jump, on the second pic let the pictured one think how to clamber over the jump... If for some this on the pics represents such a big problem, then I really don't know why you go to the high mountains in winter and expose yourselves to dangers, then it's no longer any pleasure but suffering zavijanje z očmi

No hard feelings if I've offended anyone, but that's how it is.

JusAvgustin7. 02. 2011 06:35:53

Those who don't have three clean won't set off for Spik. Such pics as the second one better keep private... Viper Gully is skiable, just so you know.

Janez Seliškar7. 02. 2011 07:04:03

Everyone decides according to their abilities, but a misleading report can be dangerous for the general public.

Second pic belongs exclusively to the PRIVATE archive!

PS: Haven't been up there in winter conditions yet.

prokofjev_7. 02. 2011 07:46:57

That second one is really off. Just missing caption under it - Before winter ascent don't cut your nails zavijanje z očmi

misk8. 02. 2011 20:03:43

Today was on Špik through Viper Gully. Start in total darkness. Track made, weather phenomenal, at the summit slight breeze, didn't meet a single hiker all day (except crowd in Krnica)! Super tour!

Still the last major ascent to the summit

View from the summit to Velika Martuljska Ponca, in front also Mala M. Ponca

View from the summit from Kukova Ššica to Dovški Križ

Last look at the already conquered winter Špik

matejn8. 02. 2011 22:26:53

Did you go in the area of the summer route through KG or on the winter variant? I'm asking because from Vršiška road the gully looks wet to me, i.e. the jumps look wet.

Regards Matej

misk9. 02. 2011 17:01:01

I went via the summer variant through KG, as the jumps are wet.

sk211. 02. 2011 16:48:00

Beautiful tour, nowhere living souls except chamois. nasmeh

JusAvgustin11. 02. 2011 17:08:37

great! bravo

kremenckov ata11. 02. 2011 17:17:54

and this without skis, conditions seem OK to me

sk211. 02. 2011 18:01:07

Conditions are quite OK for skiing (icy, breakable crust, powder...) just that you have to carry them quite a long way (bare ground below) so I went without.

Jovan Cukut28. 02. 2011 08:59:42

Three hikers made nice track through Kačji graben on 26.02.2011 (Saturday). First after fresh snow. On hribi.net you see Špik is rarely visited due to difficulty (breaking trail and orientation in lower snowy path part).