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| Becar17. 08. 2013 18:33:27 |
But it was exactly the farmers who saved the co-pilot from the fire here; the crashed plane's pilot they tried to save in vain because he died immediately. They also transported the plane wreckage and the body with their tractors. And that without any rescuers. It's a shame to explain it to you, because I see you have no clue.
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| Becar17. 08. 2013 18:43:00 |
Don't underestimate any job. I was often on duty in my previous job too and had to work even in the middle of the night when needed, and the work was dangerous too. So don't rave about glorifying rescuers. No one forces anyone into it. Just like they don't force voluntary food distributors at RK to the poor who would die of hunger without it. There are lots of us on duty and voluntary workers, among them those who save lives and not just mountain rescuers. Of course you don't see that.
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| ljubitelj gora17. 08. 2013 18:49:31 |
@gorolazka: Sadness over this accident on Triglav:
From SPIN site:
At 12.33 a mountaineer slipped off the path between Mali and Veliki Triglav, Bohinj municipality. GRS Bohinj, Mojstrana rescuers intervened, and LPE helicopter with on-duty mountain rescue team, who transported the mountaineer to the valley, but unfortunately the injuries were so severe that he lost his life at the scene
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| main17. 08. 2013 20:02:57 |
On Turska gora there was also a helicopter rescue. The female mountaineer broke her arm.
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| aonuk118. 08. 2013 10:17:21 |
Two months ago I experienced something similar myself. Under Brana a falling stone caused me an open fracture of the arm (skin laceration).
With my wife's help I got to Celje hospital myself. Of course you need to have first aid and some pills in the backpack...
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| Karletto21. 08. 2013 11:15:36 |
now I'll delete the other half of the message too, so he'll trip with the other arm too
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| JusAvgustin21. 08. 2013 11:17:50 |
diazepam and one beer... 
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| JusAvgustin21. 08. 2013 12:03:51 |
I definitely wish you quick recovery and hope you won't be involved in any more accidents!
I assume the pain is unbearable, that's why I wrote what might really help...
LP, Juš
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| Karletto21. 08. 2013 15:59:30 |
Don't ask, so you don't get a cute ZS on this completely legitimate question too...
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| aonuk121. 08. 2013 16:25:20 |
Even though you regret, I wouldn't wish something like that on you. Safe steps Vinko.
Karletto, literally copied from the message I sent you. But you were deleting half of the previous message...
By the way Juš apologized and commented
his statement on ZS.
Safe steps to all Vinko
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| som6921. 08. 2013 20:22:17 |
As an alpine country, in my opinion they should organize pro GRS, visitors should insure properly, not that they rescue
e.g. "Chinese from Voj", on the other hand I know several cases where mountaineers literally crawled to the valley so as not to burden rescuers, or expose themselves in media. Journalists anyway throw everything in one basket, instead of at least checking facts and causes of the accident.
Misfortune never sleeps and can happen to even the most experienced.
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| smatjaz21. 08. 2013 20:42:10 |
som69, I think we wouldn't need professionals, however the higher the level of mountaineer's preparedness, the higher the level of technical equipment, awareness, adherence to rules and prior trip preparation, the lower the chance of accidents, which will still happen anyway, proportionally to the increase in mountain visits, just for example when I climbed Turska gora on Saturday I met a whole bunch of hikers without helmets (very crumbly part of the Alps), without self-belay kit, in sneakers....etc. My opinion is that the amount of reimbursement for rescue should be proportional to the mountaineer's equipment and preparedness for the trip (also familiarity with the tour's difficulty - internet, brochures, maps, weather reports, GPS....etc). What do you think?
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| jax21. 08. 2013 21:55:16 |
I do agree that GRZS operations in Slovenia should be regulated comprehensively, including insurance for rescue cases. Of course, new problems arise here - what about lower hills, especially around cities (Šmarna, Pohorje, Lubnik, Jošt, Sabotin etc.), which are popular excursion spots where old and young go and where it's probably illusory to expect all occasional visitors to take out special mountaineering insurance - accidents happen there too? In other words, even in this case a line would need to be drawn, for what additional insurance is needed and for what not. The issue is therefore not simple and I certainly don't have a final answer.
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| JusAvgustin22. 08. 2013 05:50:15 |
First, a distinction needs to be made between volunteers and professionals. Switzerland is right not to have this regulated at a volunteer level, as it is a Central Alpine country where the main source is tourism, others are secondary activities. Although tourism falls under tertiary activities, it is primary in Switzerland. Both summer and winter tourism are fashionable there and it's right that they have professionally trained staff who also carry out the most difficult rescues in extreme conditions.
The main problem is underestimating the terrain and the tour (after all, we are in the Alps!), lack of orientation and many other factors that contribute to an unsuccessful tour. This includes overestimating one's own abilities and incomplete high-mountain equipment. Even high fines won't change much, a holistic solution needs to be found!
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| Becar22. 08. 2013 08:59:38 |
I think it's overly complicated in terms of who will pay for the rescue; there are those who say now taxpayers will pay for it, even those who don't go to the mountains. Such people don't realize that taxpayers pay hundreds of millions of euros also for a 5x oversized, brazenly oriented and inefficient public sector, that we pay tycoon debts in banks so that some can lie on Copacabana with a cocktail in hand and a busty girl on each side. Anger should be directed there, not at rescuing unfortunate people. Because then we could also say: I don't have a car and I won't pay for rescuing a traffic accident participant. And there would be plenty of similar nonsense.
I also don't believe that in the most serious summer accidents the pilot of a military or police helicopter flies for free. Just like the police-rescuer and doctor don't fly for free... I'm convinced it's paid from the state treasury (overtime, on-call duty or both or incentive or redistribution of working time...). Just like the use of the helicopter is paid. And that's professional level for me, because the three mentioned above are employed and the state pays their salary. Otherwise it would be black market work; imagine a doctor giving medicine on the black market, where did he get it etc... Where did the pilot get the fuel, did he pay for it himself? Probably not. So exclusive volunteering can't be talked about in this case.
The rest of the classic rescue I believe is on a volunteer level, that's right, as there are tons of volunteers. True, the state could financially help those societies at least with equipment, for prevention give such people a week in thermal baths or other vacation etc.
I think if additional payments for some special insurances started, that much more stealing and going to Copacabana would start on the other end, but not much would change. If there are too few rescuers, let the STATE invest funds in it. Any time they'll say there's no money for pensions, healthcare, rescue, education... Money THERE IS, just where it goes is another matter.
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| Becar22. 08. 2013 09:13:58 |
Irresponsible unfortunates in the mountains I would also hit in the pocket after rescue, just like the one who caused a traffic accident due to speed, alcohol. In this case, it's really a waste of state money.
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| jax22. 08. 2013 11:14:20 |
juš:
First, a distinction needs to be made between volunteers and professionals. Switzerland is right not to have this regulated at a volunteer level, as it is a Central Alpine country where the main source is tourism, others are secondary activities. Although tourism falls under tertiary activities, it is primary in Switzerland. Both summer and winter tourism are fashionable there and it's right that they have professionally trained staff who also carry out the most difficult rescues in extreme conditions.
Hard to believe, but this doesn't hold. Tourism is very important in Switzerland, perhaps the leading economic sector in some cantons, but on the national level not even close. Tourism accounts for about 3% of Swiss GDP, banking already has about 12% share, industry still close to 30%. So - I think we sometimes close our eyes a bit to what Switzerland really is. Not just a paradise for cheap money, but also a damn productive society. Just that much - off-topic.
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