Dangers that plague the mountains
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| bačo30. 01. 2015 20:38:36 |
A few comments were moved.. no problem... We all are visitors of mountains or hills, slopes.. there we are guests.. and as guests we must follow certain rules that mountains dictate.. and rules long in force.. I walk a lot in hills in Austria.. must say here you hardly meet anyone in winter... except hikers and even those more in spring... by the way.. colleague mountain guide from the place where I live in Austria explained to me straight that such rescue and treatment... the victim would have to pay himself here.. insurance would check all aspects of the accident to the last hair... here they don't give money just like that.. in short.. all who walk, ski, cycle and do plenty of stupidities in hills... same rules apply for safety and behavior.. not that a cyclist almost knocks you on the path from Bukov hill... well a hiker already knocked me... and some stone I got from someone.. not to mention two skiers last year above planika overtaking the whole column and in between imitating monkey Šoja and bear at once.. yeah normal hill walkers were in their way... wind though taught me to fly on nanos years ago with my 90 kg.. of course we were roped properly and I didn't climb into accident myself because I could have nice 20 second view of Razdrto and surroundings... not to mention lightning hail and rime.. dangers are always objective and subjective.. on some we can influence on others not but mostly can avoid them...with knowledge experience patience and caution so mountaineers hillwalkers skiers alpinists highlanders hikers snowshoers cyclists and all else that crawls up there, each with their reason.. respect mountains and safe above foggy valleys! 
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| viharnik31. 01. 2015 09:06:18 |
I recently spoke about Austrian insurance with Petra Einberger, Alpenverein Generalsekretariat, Innsbruck.
She explained detailed information regarding their insurances there, number of members is already over half a million, main centers are also in UK, just new members recently were as many as 18,000 more. Upon concluding the insurance, you are completely and well insured under their coverage without any worry, services are excellent and immediate, which showed also in rescuing the Austrian on Mojstrovka. The only thing she added is that membership in Alpenverein Innsbruck section costs a slightly higher contribution. Very friendly and responsive even far after afternoon working hours, which pleasantly surprised me .
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| Busterman31. 01. 2015 16:19:53 |
Austrian insurance is really top. No one really needs to pay for things themselves (which happens to you if you have our Slovenian insurance  , where they half, once, reluctantly reimburse those $).
In Slovenia we anyway have luck that GRS helps everyone. Insurance up the mountain down the valley.
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| ljubitelj gora11. 02. 2015 21:17:05 |
Still 3rd degree but it's already around 10 days since last snowfall and if I'm not mistaken from Blegos towards NW/N/NE half less snow fell than here, when it was still 40cm.
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| jani bele12. 02. 2015 16:35:19 |
I also think that this year's warnings and announcements of avalanche danger levels missed a bit. This winter I've been in the mountains quite often (despite my wife's ranting about my irresponsible behavior like, don't you see what they're constantly warning). Always 3rd degree was declared, but where I was (some 2000ers), there was no avalanche danger at all. Now someone will say, yeah, on the other side of the mountain there was. I agree. But even when 1st degree is declared, there's still some hidden corner where it triggers at the slightest load. The danger level should show some general state, which unfortunately usually covers all three high mountain areas together here. In the European scale at 3rd degree it says that medium-sized can spontaneously trigger locally, individually also larger avalanches. I haven't seen any this year. And when there really is 3rd degree, everyone will comparatively think, this is nothing yet.
I realize the responsibility of those who declare various dangers. Better higher and nothing happens, than lower and someone gets screwed.
Lately they're bombarding us with various colored alarms. Bora will blow on the coast (yeah where else). Red alert, schools closed, various services activated, just a bit more and armed soldiers will patrol the streets (watching too many American movies). Better like this than one coastal guy blown down and then spitting in front of POP TV camera at the responsible ones that they didn't warn him. And freely after Igor Zlodij - soon we'll be so dependent on warnings that we'll put on long johns not when it's cold, but when the alarm for that is triggered.
Jani Bele
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| viharnik12. 02. 2015 17:59:37 |
At Alpenverein they announced to follow in detail not only the general avalanche danger forecast, but every visitor should check especially local forecasts for specific ranges.
There the avalanche danger table shows in all sky directions general slab avalanche danger above 1800m altitude, to all sides except north it applies to wind-packed snow. But all depends on the loaded sides of the mountain, as instructor Jani Bele already pointed out.
Now after sunny weather, the situation has somewhat stabilized, which probably doesn't apply to higher parts of central Alps.
Here I think if even steep Kosuta hasn't slid anywhere yet, just cleaned somewhat by wind, then really no III degree avalanche danger threatens.
But this winter is really something quite strange with constant winds and quite long intervals of snowfalls, so caution even into early summer won't hurt.
In Tyrol the boundary for third degree avalanche danger is set even at 1800m
https://lawine.tirol.gv.at/home/uebersicht/
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| pikica119. 08. 2016 23:47:32 |
I just read on the forum the post about safer going to mountains. I also looked at the pictures. But the last one I don't like too much, if it's about safe walking in mountains.
The hiker pictured from behind with white helmet has poles in hand. The slope is quite steep, others help with hands. Not only does he have poles in hand, also the straps from poles over wrist (at least that's how I see it). To me that seems really dangerous in such steepness. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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| grega_z_brega19. 08. 2016 23:56:16 |
I won't correct you at all, I do the same. I have the straps so the poles don't slip from my hands.
But you have to consider that we're different. Some are like goats, others cramped to death..
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| darinka420. 08. 2016 12:46:49 |
Several times I noticed that some hikers, when in the wall, don't stow the poles. Then unknowingly trigger some rock. They endanger themselves and others, maybe unknowingly. In climbing part you need both hands free.
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| dprapr20. 08. 2016 16:11:36 |
On that picture and on such terrain pole use is welcome. Definitely better than on all fours.
But true, using straps in steep terrain is dangerous, especially downhill.
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| Smetar21. 08. 2016 12:21:26 |
Straps from poles are only exceptionally over the wrist (on ascent - so pole doesn't slip from hand). In all other cases they're more hindrance than help. On such terrain as in the picture they are welcome, since no excessive slope and if user is skilled with poles they're helpful. If there are longer sections with cable then stow them, but all depends on individual... if in doubt then follow principle of safer walking and always stow poles - even for shorter sections where we'll need hands for progress.
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| SamoK21. 08. 2016 13:14:05 |
>Straps from poles are only exceptionally over the wrist (during ascent
I would really like to see how many people have straps around their wrists during ascent ...
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| SamoK21. 08. 2016 13:15:37 |
But I agree with dprap that the pole use shown in the picture (no slope at all!) is completely unproblematic.
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| capraibex21. 08. 2016 14:00:21 |
Darinkin's answer is short and pithy. Whoever doesn't get it, can't be helped.
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| julius21. 08. 2016 15:29:46 |
Attaching a link from which it's clearly visible how our neighbors tackle mountain safety issues.
There too mountain visits have enormously increased this year and thus the number of mountain accidents has also increased. The police will get a new helicopter to enforce order in the mountains.
With us mountain police have no competencies for such work, can only politely warn. So anyone can go to Triglav in sandals until further notice.
And on this forum too, any puffed-up moron can share "advice" and pontificate.
http://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/2791957/
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| jax21. 08. 2016 15:38:47 |
On more demanding terrain pole use ALWAYS means increased risk of triggering rocks. Everything else - easier, feel better, I do it that way - are just subjective opinions.
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| Smetar21. 08. 2016 16:22:45 |
@SamoK:
- Straps are only useful for ascending technically easy terrain (e.g. scree walking), as they relieve "forearm muscles" so we can lightly lean on them. But agree question is how many actually do it...
- problematic is pole use with straps safety-wise. Without straps no danger if skilled (refer to picture). With straps issue is they prolong possible fall stop time (pole catches and can't grip with hand).
@julius: My subjective opinion: not problem what we use, problem if we don't know how to use it. Seen many in running shoes moving better than those in gojzarje but unskilled.
Think mountain safety solution not "police repression" but education...
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| IgorZlodej21. 08. 2016 16:45:34 |
Does anyone know how to use these kinds of poles? Expect answers from those who go to mountains, not theorists.
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| Gora Trma21. 08. 2016 17:53:37 |
Mountaineer descending so fast from Kamniško sedlo on snow we couldn't catch up said such poles above Soča hills called posenarca. Shoulders have hay basket, posenarca third support.
Tested in practice too. Works really well.
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| Gora Trma21. 08. 2016 17:55:33 |
Igor,
Aren't you from that area?
Regards!
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