Dangers that plague the mountains
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| viharnik24. 01. 2015 21:49:36 |
On Alpenwetter.at besides the weather forecast, they also warn about extensive snow deposits (drifts) that formed with strong wind!
Besondere Bemerkungen: Aufgrund des starken Windes sind grosse Schneeverfrachtungen zu erwarten!.
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| serznoz29. 01. 2015 10:37:07 |
I'm following this debate. Nice to read nice wishes to Dejan, I join them too.
But something is still missing: wishes for him to return to the mountains as soon as possible sound too gladiatorial to me. I'm surprised no one has recommended to the guy a serious reflection on whether it was really necessary to push up in the conditions that were on Saturday. That was anything but courage. Why foolish challenging? Basic rules of moving in snowy conditions were violated. Dejan usually doesn't take enough clothes with him. Others were forced into risk too. The costs of rescue and treatment will be covered by all from the health fund.
Was it necessary? Can something be learned from this? If he continues as before, it's just a matter of time when the incident repeats? Will he survive then too?
So: back to the mountains YES, but first master and stick to the rules of moving in the mountains. And a change in the head.
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| ms_primoz29. 01. 2015 11:03:37 |
serznoz - I fully agree with you...
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| urarrr29. 01. 2015 11:29:08 |
@sernoz
have you ever thought that maybe the weather wasn't to blame.
In May it will be 5 years since about 50 meters from where Dejan slipped, an acquaintance slipped. Unfortunately it ended badly. with all the gear. experienced older mountaineer.... I was 5 m from him. unfortunately I couldn't do anything.. and when you see it live and see how little it takes for an accident to happen.... it bothers me a bit when I read various sermons...
I think you've twisted your ankle or something similar in your life story already. did anyone tell you then why it was necessary to be there at that time....
someone told me many times. better to be born without a dick than without luck, if you have luck even the dick can grow....
and I apologize in advance for the swear words and such word...
hope I didn't offend anyone, that wasn't my intention
with all due respect
bestM
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| Jovan Cukut29. 01. 2015 11:32:37 |
'@sernoz', everything you wrote holds true, but, even though we all know that too, probably each of us who goes to the mountains, from ordinary hiker to alpinist - mountain guide, has challenged them sometimes. 'What can we do', we are people with good and bad traits. I've already written something about this on this forum in my public albums. There is no 100% safety in the mountains, neither in good nor bad conditions, not only in mountains, you can lose life anywhere, on the road from a cyclist, from a car at a pedestrian crossing, from a brick from the roof of Ljubljana's Šestica, or on the highway, which, according to Grošelj, is more dangerous than climbing in mountains. And I won't list more.
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| Kobra 129. 01. 2015 11:41:58 |
As A. Pasilini already wrote ...
" You can play with life, never with death"
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| ms_primoz29. 01. 2015 11:46:09 |
urarrr - that's why it's called an accident. Definitely the weather wasn't to blame, but it contributed to the accident. E.g.: police report (traffic accident): "died due to excessive speed". No one has died due to excessive speed yet, they die from head hitting an object, from fire,.. whatever, but not from excessive speed, speed just contributed to ......
Besides, serznoz doesn't condemn anyone, just asks questions, that's why there are question marks (?) at the end of sentences.
nowhere is 100% safe, not even sitting at home on the armchair... but if you choose a day when external factors are demanding (strong wind, fog, rain, snowfall,...) then you're consequently more endangered already at the start and increase the chance of accident, than if you go on the same path in clear weather.
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| SunBurned29. 01. 2015 11:48:07 |
I think everyone must learn something from the lesson received, and that only a donkey steps on the same ice twice. So in the future more calculation even at the price of less attractive achievements. Applies also to other things, not only to mountains.
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| bačo29. 01. 2015 12:19:22 |
I rarely post here, but it doesn't give me peace. I fully agree with serznoz... I've been a mountain guide for almost thirty years and the experiences in those years teach you many things... I'd just write this: mountains have their own laws and there are rules, even written ones, by which we should behave in the mountains. Dejan violated at least three: consideration of the weather forecast, the avalanche forecast and going alone into the hills in such conditions... already in one of his previous posts from the Kamnik Alps I noticed something similar... In the hills, knowledge and courage aren't enough. Above all, the head is important, which must always be in the right place, and experiences which you get mainly with years... pushing somewhere at any cost I don't approve of. I think Slovenia has a lot of nice huts, which in those conditions were much more suitable for some nice adventure... I know there's no 100% safety but we can do a lot ourselves to avoid dangers, above all by going to the mountains mainly with head... Dejan, I wish you the quickest recovery; you had luck... luck accompanies the brave... return to the hills as soon as possible but with more sense and thoughtfulness... when where... and I hope you've learned something from this experience... and others too. Best.
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| SamoK29. 01. 2015 12:56:10 |
Perhaps some go to the mountains just for the beauty, many also to test themselves, experience the sharpness of life that cannot be experienced without certain risk. I think Dejan is one of those too. Therefore it's inappropriate for those who don't have this need in themselves to philosophize about it.
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| dprapr29. 01. 2015 13:04:44 |
If they're already philosophizing, at least wait until the person recovers.
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| VanSims29. 01. 2015 14:57:05 |
"Others were forced into the risk too. We'll cover the rescue and treatment costs from the health fund."
We'll pay as long as we have this socialist solidarity system, not like abroad where you have to be insured if you don't want to pay all costs yourself. And even then the insurance can refuse payment in cases of gross negligence. It doesn't matter at all whether it was provocation or accident. We pay for many things, including the stupidities of our green-headed politicians, so we'll pay for this too.
But regarding the first sentence, here it does matter whether it was an accident or provocation. If it was the latter (especially given that no one went to the summit that day or in such weather conditions as there were) then it's really not fair. Especially since people doing this are not only unpaid but not even insured, nor does it fall under occupational risk... what if something happens to one of the rescuers, who covers their absence from work or even disability in that case... because in this our little socialist country everything is still on a voluntary basis!
But of course it could have been an accident too. Possible. It has happened to all of us at some point to be on the edge (me too). Slipped but barely caught, or on an exposed spot lost balance a bit and caught at the last moment... Just like on the road where we all can be potential killers.
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| panda29. 01. 2015 15:46:26 |
Very nicely written.
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| jannika29. 01. 2015 16:00:26 |
"Treatment and rescue costs we'll cover from the fund"... of course we will, just like we cover treatment costs for neglected, lazy, overweight, inactive, alcoholics and incompetent road accident causers. Against all that this heli hour is a drop in the ocean... it reminds me a bit when the "couch potatoes" got upset who would cover rescuing Humar from the wall. (on the other hand no one gets upset about stolen billions) Otherwise the conditions weren't bad, except wind, if AO Ajdovščina members were just heading to the summit (thank God they were there). But Dejan is better prepared than 99% of us and despite young age has lots of mileage even in winter conditions, but a bit too much courage (with years that level drops). Accidents happened and will, for some challenge is already every move from bed, for some ascent to Triglav is "no big deal". If everyone were safety-first, man would still eat with wooden spoon... But I agree we'll all learn something from this. Regards.
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| hribi29. 01. 2015 16:51:51 |
First sincere wishes to Dejan to recover as soon as possible.
It's true; if everyone were safety-first like me, we'd still eat with wooden spoons, but still it's not the smartest to violate multiple rules of movement in mountains, as my predecessor mountain rescuer wrote. I won't talk about paying costs, I'm glad we have it arranged so that everyone is helped, not just those with money and precisely because of that we all must be a bit more responsible and aware that for our rescue someone else risks their life. I'd advise Dejan to still walk wisely and not risk too much, since it's mainly his life at stake.
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| VanSims29. 01. 2015 20:15:28 |
quoting @jannika: "of course we will, just like we cover treatment costs of neglected, lazy, overweight, inactive, alcoholics and incompetent road accident causers."
@jannika: The comparison of paying for rescue and treatment of mountain accident victims and what you mention is really out of place!
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| stenly29. 01. 2015 20:20:32 |
What's important is how qualitatively you live, not how long.
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| ljubitelj gora30. 01. 2015 13:23:46 |
Thoughtful choice of goal, complete equipment with knowledge and experience and not too fast then one such nice day is an unforgettable experience. But if some rush to Mojstrovka with crampons they provoke. 12-tooth crampons cost 60-80 euros, just that much costs fuel from Ptuj to Vršič and back + lunch in Kranjska Gora.
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